Jeremy Pierce: September 2010 Archives

Christian Carnival CCCXLVII

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The 347th Christian Carnival is up at à la mode de les Muses.

Paul Copan's "Is Yahweh a Moral Monster?" presents what struck me, on my first exposure to it, as a relatively novel (to me, anyway) thesis defending God as presented in the Hebrew scriptures from the charge of genocide. He claims that the commands to wipe out Canaan and not leave anyone standing, including women, children, and even livestock are hyperbole and that such expressions were commonly used to indicate a severe attack but did not literally mean that no one at all would survive.

I was a bit hesistant to rely on such a view, because it seemed to be to require more evidence than Copan gave, and there are certainly some occurrences when the expression in question simply cannot mean what Copan wants it to mean, e.g. when Saul is roundly condemned by Samuel in I Sam 15 for not fully carrying out the wiping out of the Amalekites. Saul's failure in that chapter was precisely his willingness to leave some alive, as Wes Morriston pointed out in the comments on Robert Gressis' Prosblogion posting on this last year. That objection struck me as decisive.

It occurred to me very recently, however, that Morriiston's objection doesn't quite do it. I'm still a little skeptical of Copan's thesis without more evidence than I've seen, but I'm not sure anymore that Morriston's objection really defeats the thesis. Consider the following version of Copan's claim. There's the literal meaning of the expression to wipe out everyone and everything. Saul did not do that. He spared Agag and the best of the livestock. Copan could then come along and point out that the passage doesn't include in Saul's failure that he spared women and children, for example. So it's compatible with what the text says that (a) Saul did wipe out all the women and children (and spared just Agag and the best animals) and that (b) Saul didn't wipe out all the women and chilfdren (but never was supposed to kill all of them, just all of the animals and King Agag).

So I'm not sure anything in I Sam 15 disproves Copan's thesis. Saul did sin, according to I Sam 15, by sparing Agag and the best livestock. But it may well have been that Agag and the livestock should have been killed according to the correct Copan-modified translaton or paraphrase of whatever the hyperbolic command really insisted on. In other words, Saul really should have killed Agag and these animals according to the command of God, but that doesn't mean he literally was expected to wipe out the whole Amalekite people. So I don't think I Sam 15 is really a counterexample to Copan's proposal.

[cross-posted at Prosblogion]

Christian Carnival CCCXLVI

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The 346th Christian Carnival is up at Beyond Belief.

You Shall Give To Him Freely

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There's a fascinating element in the discussion of the Sabbath year in Deuteronomy 15. The general law requires releasing people from their debts every seven years. That means if you lend to someone a few months before the release of debts, and the person is too poor to pay it back in time, you have to release them of the debt. You might expect this to give rise to unprecedented amounts of stinginess in the time before the year of debt-release. The law anticipates this, though, and it commands Israel not to use such fears as excuses not to give. It's sin to refuse to give in such a situation, and they were commanded to give and not grudgingly. It says God will reward those who get stiffed in such a situation.

In the debate between complementarianism and egalitarianism about gender distinctions in marriage, egalitarians often say that calling on a woman to submit to her husband is unfair when the man isn't called on to do the same. This does ignore that the same Ephesians 5 that tells women to submit to their husbands commands husbands to love their wives as self-sacrificially as the love that brought Christ to die for the church, which I think should count as at least as significant a level of sacrifice as what the wife is asked to do. But one thing complementarians often say strikes me as missing the point. They say that in any ideal marriage this shouldn't be an issue. If the husband is loving his wife as Christ loved the church and gave himself for her, then it won't be difficult at all for the wife to submit to the husband.

One hint that something is amiss here comes from considering the flip-side, which would be: If the wife submits to the husband, then it won't be difficult to love her as Christ loved the church. Really? I suspect it would still be immensely difficult for a sinful husband or wife to follow these commands even with a sinless spouse.

But I think the main reason I don't like that complementarian response is that you shouldn't have to go to the ideal situation to see that these commands are all right. If complementarianism is correct, then wives should submit to their husbands even if their husbands are complete jerks, and husbands should love their wives as Christ loved the church even if their wives are as unlovely as someone's inner self could be. Indeed, I would say this is so even with an egalitarian interpretation of this passage. This is simply Christian teaching. Philippians 2 makes this utterly clear. Christ's model of giving himself for us is just plain the model for Christians and how we should treat others, regardless of how those others treat us. And this is simply continuous with the Hebrew scriptures, including the Mosaic law, since the very same principle underlies the command in Deuteronomy 15 that lenders should give to the poor even when there's little chance of getting the money back before the debt-release year (and many other places in the Torah, Proverbs, prophets, etc. along these lines).

So, while I don't think the complementarian reply above is correct (i.e. saying that in an ideal situation it isn't all that bad to follow complementarianism), at the same time I think objections to complementarianism that involve any claim that it asks too much are, at the very least, contrary to the very spirit of Christ and his call on the church. There are those who will resist such an ethic. They will say that Nietzsche was right in his diagnosis of Christianity as a slave-morality. I'm willing to grant that to a point, as long as they recognize that they resist Christianity in doing so. What I will have little patience for is those who think they can maintain a Christian ethic while thinking any unfairness here is immoral.

It reminds me of a discussion I overheard between two atheist philosophers, both of whom had some Christian influence when they were younger. One was giving a certain argument against a certain conception of hell, saying that it would be unfair, and the other said that it won't make much sense to use an argument that assumes God is fair against the followers of Jesus, since Jesus described God in terms of an employer giving the same amount of pay to the laborers who only worked an hour as he gave to those who had been working all day. These were day-laborers who subsist on a day's wage to live for the day. The Torah even requires people to pay day-laborers every day for that very reason. Jesus says God is like the farmer who pays the day-laborers a full day's wage even if they don't earn it. There's nothing fair about that arrangement, and yet Jesus says it represents what God's character is like. It's not remotely fair to ask Israelites to give to their poor fellow Israelites who will almost certainly end up with no debt due to the closeness of the year of debt-release. But it's very clear that biblical morality requires doing exactly that sort of thing and much more.

[cross-posted at Evangel]

Christian Carnival CCCXLV

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The 345th Christian Carnival is up at Revenge of Mr Dumpling.


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There's a particularly bad argument against those who accept the biblical prohibitions against same-sex sexual acts, and I think I've just realized something new about the argument. The Torah prohibitions on male-male sex acts are declared to be an abomination. There are those who want to reconsider how to interpret the biblical texts who want to minimize this statement. They point to the fact that eating shellfish is also an abomination in the Torah, which means it can't be all that bad to be an abomination in the Torah.

Anyone who has thought for a little bit about the relation Christians see between the Mosaic law and the New Testament should see through such an argument, because the New Testament explicitly affirms the judgment of male-male and female-female sexual relations as bad while explicitly rejecting the dietary laws that the ban on eating shellfish was a part of. So that objection is pretty naive. Any Christian interpretive grid that seeks to minimize the Torah prohibition on same-sex sex acts can't do so merely because we nowadays think it's all right to eat shellfish, because there's explicit allowance of that in the New Testament and explicit continuance of the harsh language about same-sex sex acts.

What occurred to me today, when reading Christopher Wright's discussion of Deuteronomy 25, is that there's a further problem with this objection. It's not that the occurrence of eating shellfish lowers the negative judgment on homosexuality because an innocent enough act gets called an abomination. It's the evil of eating shellfish and the other things that fall under this same term that go way up, and that includes the example Wright discusses from Deuteronomy 25 (cheating people in commercial ventures). Eating shellfish in the covenant context of God's people called together to be separate from their neighbors is tantamount to deciding for yourself what you think God's standards should have been when he instituted the dietary laws. We can't read our acceptance of shellfish-eating into how serious eating shellfish would have been taken among those at the time.

The dietary laws were an important distinguishing feature of how Israel was to live in contrast to those around them. It reflected both abandonment of pagan worship practices and an affirmation of the things in nature that, in the Mosaic covenant, represented wholeness and unity among God's people. It's easy to lose sight of how serious it is to reject that when you think about how easily Christians eat shellfish today. It's a complete misunderstanding of the cultural, indeed covenant, context of the Torah to think that the inclusion of shellfish as an abomination makes abominations not very serious.

Those who continue to hold to a high view of scripture, including the Torah, aren't going to be able to dismiss the Torah pronouncements against abominations as easily as pointing out that we all eat shellfish now and don't consider it an abomination. Any Christian does consider it an abomination to do something with the import of what eating shellfish would have been in that context. We just rightly don't think eating shellfish in our context would have the same import. So any reconciliation of the prevailing secular view of homosexuality of our day with a high view of Christian scripture is going to have to look elsewhere. I don't think it's all that plausible that we should lessen how serious we take the Torah prohibitions on what it calls abominations to be just because it's called an abomination to eat shellfish. We should instead increase our sense of the horror an ancient Hebrew would have had at the idea of eating shellfish

[cross-posted at Evangel]

Puzzling Reference to Sophists

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This is from Kwame Anthony Appiah's In My Father's House: Africa in the Philosophy of Culture, p.11:

...there are arguments in the works of the pre-Socratic Sophists to the effect that it is individual character and not skin color that determines a person's worth.

He has an endnote that deals entirely with the first half of this sentence, which was about Homer. He gives no source for this claim, and there's no other mention of anything remotely helpful in the context.

This is a little surprising to me, because the only Sophists I know of who we have any record of what they thought about ethics were Protagoras in his relativism and Antiphon in his egoistic nihilism. I wouldn't expect either to put forward such a view as a genuine moral truth, and the others we have any indication about (Gorgias, Thrasymachus, Callicles) seem to have been with Antiphon at least in terms of the basic view.

So does anyone know of any information that Appiah must be aware of that I'm not?


I've been sending these guidelines out to new hosts for quite a while, and it occurred to me that it might be better just to post them and direct people to the post. So here are the expectations and instructions for hosting the Christian Carnival. (If you don't know what the Christian Carnival is, see here.) From here on out, this post is directed toward those who will host the Christian Carnival at their own blog, making clear what is expected of a host and which sorts of things hosts generally have freedom and discretion to do.

You should be receiving the submissions at your email address. Someone has the weekly responsibility to set that up every Wednesday for the next host. Basically, your task is to take a look at each post to see if it qualifies for submission. The requirements are:

1. The blog is Christian, in a broad sense, and the post submitted reflects a Christian worldview even if in a loose way. For example, politics, family life, ethical issues, and money management are all valid if there's at least some connection with Christian principles, but a post on tax preparation with no spiritual discussion or some partisan battle in Congress that makes no reference to Christian principles might be stretching it too much.

The Christian Carnival defines its Christianity in terms of Protestant, Orthodox, and Catholic tradition as long as there's nothing undermining the creeds or directly challenging the Bible or God. Groups that call themselves Christian but deny the Trinity, for instance, are not Christian in the sense we mean. Questions about doctrine that the three main branches of Christianity differ on are matters of dispute that we wouldn't use to disqualify anyone. This is not an indication of any view one way or the other on what it takes to be a genuine follower of Christ or to be genuinely saved. It is simply a decision the founders of this Carnival made when figuring out which people will count as Christian for the sake of chronicling some of the best Christian blog posts each week.

If you have any questions about particular posts, let me know, and I can take a look and offer an opinion. The final call is yours if you want it, or you can pass it off if you'd rather have one of us handle it. If it looks like spam (e.g. a porn site or a financial opportunity), there's no reason to respond. Just ignore it. If you think they submitted it in good faith but didn't know what is required, it's worth an email explaining why it didn't make the final cut. If you don't want that task, let me know, and I can do it instead.

2. Submissions are supposed to be from the last week, defined as midnight Tuesday night EST the last week to midnight Tuesday night EST the week you host. I usually allow a little wiggle room, but a submission in December of a post written in September is clearly too long ago. If a post is too old, it's worth an email to the submitter explaining the rule and asking if they have something more recent to submit instead. We try not to offend people who might simply not know what the Christian Carnival is supposed to be.

3. One post per person per blog. If two posts appear from the same author on the same blog, you should either choose one or offer them a choice about which to include. (If the author submitted one, and someone else submitted the other, see 4 below.) An author can submit posts from two different blogs, and a group blog can submit posts from as many different authors as there are. The limit is one per person per blog.

4. Most people submit their own stuff, but you can accept posts recommended by others. Just go with the author's preference if someone suggests a second post by the same person on the same blog. This rarely happens (maybe just once or twice that I know of, but I'm not even sure of that), but it's good to have a policy in case it does.

For each post that qualifies, you just need to put them all together into one post that links to all of them, providing the name of the blog and the name of the post. If you want, you can have separate links to the blog and the post, but all you absolutely need is a link to the post and the name of the blog. That's the bare minimum. It's nice to include a description, and most submissions have them included anyway in a form that you can copy and paste. You can just use their description or modify it slightly if need be in those cases (sometimes they frame it in the first person). I generally don't put in a description if the submitter doesn't, unless I think the title is very unhelpful in figuring out what it's about. But some hosts like to write up their own descriptions and sometimes even offer comments, and I've sometimes done that too. Some people work in a theme to organize the whole thing or to order the posts by topic, but others just put them in order of submission (or sometimes reverse order of submission). How you do it is totally up to you. You can look through previous Christian Carnivals at the archive site if you want some ideas of outrageous or unusual ways to organize the material (see some of my own early ones, for some examples), but it's actually less common now to see anything very involved, and no one expects it of you.

The Blog Carnival submissions come with ready-made HTML. If your blog software accepts that, all you have to do is copy and paste from those, and maybe you'll need to insert the description, since I think that isn't part of the HTML. Other submissions will depend on how the person formats it. Most of them, in my experience, are through BlogCarnival, unless the person in charge of that job forgets to update it with the host's URL, in which case it thinks there's no carnival and delays the form from working, which is really annoying. Let me know if you suspect an issue with this.

The carnival is supposed to be up sometime on Wednesday, but if that doesn't happen it's not the end of the world. One time I hosted I didn't get it posted until Thursday night, and since this is your first time I think there's plenty of room to extend you extra grace. But if you can get it done on Wednesday, that would be ideal. Some people try to work on it as the submissions come in so they can get it posted as early as they can on Wednesday, but don't think you need to get it up first thing in the morning. Some people stay up late getting it all done so they can just post it in the morning, and I don't see any need for that unless you really want to do it.

If you have any questions as you go, please don't hesitate to ask.

Thanks again for your willingness to do this.

For those who have read all this and are not on the hosting schedule and would like to be, please send me an email in the address in the sidebar, and I'll see if we can schedule you a week to host. We're always looking for new volunteers.


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Wow, talking about missing the point. The idea is that the Myers-Briggs personality test is bunk because it has two options for each category, when people are actually along a spectrum for each category, and most people are nearer to the middle than the extremes. Right. That's actually why the Myers-Briggs scores themselves actually put people along a spectrum according to how strong each trait is, and if they're close to the middle they say to count yourself as X instead (at least the Keirsey one that anyone uses does this; I have no knowledge of the official test you have to pay for, but no one else does either unless they pay lots of money for it, and that's dumb given the free availability of the Keirsey one).

The MBTI type scale is a highly useful way of coming to understand significant aspects of other people's preferences and tendencies. The problems with it have to do with focusing on four different ways that people can really differ and not getting to some other ways people can differ, but that just means it's incomplete. The idea that it's bunk merely because the scales it introduces are a matter of degree reflects nothing but total ignorance about how the scales function (since they are indeed scales and not binary categories). It's sad that someone with the readership of Ann Althouse is helping to perpetuate such a ridiculous criticism.

Christian Carnival CCCXLIV

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The 344th Christian Carnival is up at The Bible Archive.

Crusade Colonies?

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When European Crusaders retook Jerusalem and some of its surrounding cities during the First Crusade, they had intended to restore it to Byzantine hands, but the Byzantine emperor had betrayed them at the last minute, and that led to the Europeans setting up their own states in these cities. Rodney Stark calls these the Crusader kingdoms in God's Battalions, and on one use of the term "colony" it does seem appropriate to call these European colonies. But he points out that there are two different ways people use the terms "colony" or "colonial":

a. There's what academics often mean, which involves the colonizer economically taking advantage of the colonized or forcing them to convert to their religion
b. Then there's what most people mean, including some historians who regularly refer to the Crusade kingdoms (the political structures set up in Jerusalem and nearby by the crusaders when they overthrew the Muslim colonizers), which is simply one group of people setting up camp in another location, without thereby implying anything like definition a.

The Crusade kingdoms in fact couldn't fit definition b, according to Stark, because (1) the flow of money and resources went there other way (the Crusades were expensive, and all the money to operate the Crusader kingdoms came from taxes paid by Europeans to maintain the European presence in that religion and (2) they didn't force conversions or even treat non-Christians as second-class citizens the way their Muslim predecessor colonists had. If you do want to count them as colonists in the bad sense, then they're just the successor colonists to the Turkish colonists. Those who criticize the Crusades as part of European colonialism rarely apply the same reasoning to the Muslim conquerings that the European Crusades were a response to.

Stark is right so far as all that goes, I think, but he leaves out one crucial sense in which most academics will use the term "colonialism" that may well apply, and that's cultural or social colonizing. One culture is ruling over another and dominates. You might call it cultural imperialism. That certainly was true of the Crusader kingdoms. They allowed Jews, Muslims, and others to remain and practice their religions freely, for the most part anyway, but they ran things in a European feudal way, and the socio-cultural, including religious, perspective of the Europeans certainly dominated.

I think Stark misses that when arguing against the two components of colonialism that he says aren't present. But I'm also not convinced of the view of many academics that such cultural dominance and control is in principle bad. Isn't it what we do whenever we pass a law by majority consent that a minority might disapprove of (or in the case of Obamacare a majority doesn't even consent to). I don't see why that's in principle evil. Leaders should do what they thinks is best, and sometimes they may get it right when the people they're leading don't agree. That shouldn't necessarily stop them. If the different viewpoints happen to coincide with different cultural perspectives or tendencies, it still doesn't seem to me to make it wrong to enforce it. Other factors might make it wrong, e.g. if it's not good policy to begin with. But I've never been convinced that the consent of the governed or the cultural similarity or connection between governing and governed should be in-principle required for a government to be moral and just.

[Technically, "consent of the governed" is multiply ambiguous. It could be a requirement that the governed is required for every little thing, or it could mean they just have to approve of the representatives making the decisions, who are held accountable every so often. The U.S. only has the latter kind of consent of the governed, and it would be crazy to do much more, although there are ways that there could be more consent. It could mean consent of all the governed, a general consensus of the governed, a majority of the governed, etc (and any actual government usually requires a much more complex procedure for calculating it). I mean to say that I don't think any of these things is required for a just and morally good government, which I understand is a pretty radical view nowadays, but I think it's true.]

Christian Carnival CCCXLIII

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The 343rd Christian Carnival is up at Thinking in Christ.


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