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time signature carry on wayward son 4/4
Yes, it's 4/4, fairly boring for Kansas. There are lots of other Kansas songs to pick if you want 11/8, 13/8, 7/8, 9/8, 5/4, or whatever unusual time signature you need. You probably have all of those and more just in The Spider, and that's only like three minutes long.

must be a Christian Hedonist to be saved
This one amazed me. It led to some people taking Piper way out of context. He says that you need to find joy in what God has done in Christ before you can receive it, which is just astoundingly obvious. How could someone receive the gift of God while finding it horrific? These people think Piper is teaching that you need to have an explicit affirmation of the thesis of Christian hedonism to be saved, which isn't even close to what he says. Piper is making a very small point. He thinks Christian hedonism is true, and he thinks those who have accepted the Christian gospel and repented of their sin are living as Christian hedonists to some degree, even if they pretend they aren't. So when someone asks him if you need to fulfill your desires in God to be saved, of course he'll say yes. To paint him as if he's saying that someone can't be saved without affirming the words that he uses to describe Christian hedonism is simply bearing false witness against him.


Jeremy, are you a ... a drummer? I've never known guitarists to talk about time signatures, unless it's to ask a drummer a question about them. =)

I do play hand drums, but I like to play them in a set if I have enough of what I need. I like to have two djembes, a set of bongos, a tambourine around each foot for high hat and cymbal effect, and a rain stick that I turn over every now and then. I had about five hours of drum lessons on a full drum set, and I learned some drum theory in a music theory course. I know about time signatures more from listening to progressive rock than from anywhere else, though. We played stuff in 5/4 and 7/8 in high school. Our music teacher is a professional jazz drummer, so he was into that sort of thing.

My primary instrument in high school jazz band was keyboards, including piano, synthesizer, electric piano, and vibraphone. I've play a lot more bass starting with college, and I think of that as my main instrument, the one I'm best at, but I've played enough of the hand drums in set fashion that I think I can say I know a lot about set drumming. I'm not really a guitar player at all. I play chords, and I can do enough to lead worship, but that's about it. I could never try to be a guitarist in a professional band. I could play bass professionally if I wanted to devote a lot more time than I have to it.

If the guitarists you talk to don't know about the funkier (as in unusual) time signatures then you haven't been around players of 80's style metal/progressive rock.

Jeremy, color me impressed. I studied both classical percussion and jazz drumming. Played professionally for a couple of years. While I think self-taught players miss out on a lot of cool technique, I'm constantly dazzled by those same drummers who arrive at the correct answers on their own.

Steven, I played with a lot of those players. They only think they know much about time signatures. Wayne Cucurullo ... the Zappa guys ... they know time signatures, but their numbers are few. =)

I think some of the progressive rockers know their time signatures. They may not know how to write stuff out technically, but they know how to count how many of a certain note will be coming up in each measure. Some of the Yes members were classically trained, and others may have learned their understanding of time changes from Bill Bruford. Kerry Livgren was a drummer in high school, so he probably learned it when he learned drums. I'm sure the classically-educated Genesis guys know time signatures very well, and Robert Fripp of King Crimson certainly does, as do the Dream Theatre guys. Many of these people may have learned them from drummers, of course, but some of them are classically trained.

With such a great drummer that Dream Theater has, the guitarist AND bass player AND keyboardist (all three!) are all also classically trained.

I also invite to check out Fates Warning; Savatge, Iron Maiden (no, really--multiple timing changes; though I can't vouch for the GTR training); Yngwie Malmsteen (mucho classical) and Spock's Beard (get the early stuff, the lead singer pulled a Kansas and went into Christian music--tried more poppy comercial but ended up trying progressive [his album "Testimony" w/ Mike Portney is excellent].)

Let's not even mention the big three: Satriani, Vai and Eric Johnson. No, there are plenty of guitar pickers that know their stuff.

Me? I was 100% white boy--not a dang bit of rhythm in my whole body!

They don't write them like that anymore! Sigh...

Satriani, Vai, and Johnson don't tend to explore odd time signatures. I didn't think Yngvie did either. I haven't heard the others much except Spock's Beard, who are my current favorite. They're well into the progressive scene in their own right, though. These other groups are only proggish at times, including Dream Theater, who are more metal than prog too often for my tastes.

One is better than Testimony. It's my favorite of all the albums I've heard from him. Have you gotten it yet? Mike Portnoy's on this one too, and he's got Phil Keaggy on a few tracks. His pop albums had nothing to do with his going into Christian music. He became a Christian over the course of a few years, but he was clearly a Christian by 2001. He did both Transatlantic albums and the Snow album for Spock's Beard after that point, and I think even Spock's Beard's V album was after he was a Christian. His decision to leave those two groups came after he'd already done the two poppish solo albums, and the first one was before he was even a Christian. The first album he did after leaving Spock's Beard was Testimony, which has some of his most progressive albums to date. So it's not really accurate to say that he left Spock's Beard and went into poppy CCM stuff. His first poppy album, his third album overall, since leaving the band is coming out this fall.

Satriani and Vai have used them (sparingly) in their music, Eric Johnson, if he did, hides them too well for me to find them (he's more blues based.)

Yngwie used them in his early stuff, again, sparingly; his early stuff is more classical and he did some unusal stuff.

I think that Morse's "It's Not Too Late" is Christian themed, though it looks like what I have read may have overstated his "pop" Christian. At the time of his leaving the band, that was what the SB site was saying he was going to do.

I have not gotten "One" yet, but on your recommendation, I'll check it out.

PS: His left the band amicably amicably, so the Kansas reference is probably a little overstated, though there was some tension and dissappointment at the time.


When he left the band, a lot of fans insisted that everything he did from then on would be like It's Not Too Late.

One of the other factors is that he has described his conversion as taking place from about 1998 to about 2000 or 2001 (I don't remember which). A lot of Christian themes crept into his music during that time. He was attending church for part of that time.

Absolutely. You and your wife have some great taste in music!

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