Done with Atonement (for now)

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Well, I think I'm done with posting about Penal Substitution/Union for the time being. This is not because I've run out of things to say (c'mon, I'm writing a thesis about it...I have tons to say), but because I'm starting to sound tedious and repetative even to myself. (You have no idea how many posts and comments I've refrained from posting because I sounded like a blowhard even to myself.) And if I sound that way to me, then I can't imagine how annoying I must sound to you. I'll continue to respond to comments in the already existing threads, but don't expect any new threads on this subject for a while. Now if you actually want to hear more from me on this subject, I'll be happy to oblige; just leave comments in this thread to that effect, and I'll post more. But I suspect that people are getting weary of hearing me on this topic and I don't want to be obnoxious. So I'll quit while I can (I'd say "while I'm ahead", but I think I'm actually behind at this point).

That being said, I want to thank everyone who participated in this discussion. This has discussion has driven me deeper into Christ and cause me to search scripture more. Even if I'm wrong, I think that God has grown me in this discussion. I hope the same is true for everyone else who engaged with me.

As it stands right now, it seems that most everyone agrees with Penal Union, but doesn't seem to think that there is any conflict between Penal Union and Penal Substitution, and thus eveyone wants to hold on to both.

Is that an accurate assesment? Did I convince anyone that Penal Union is the One True Way? ;)

Another question: do you guys like it when I bring up a controversial topic and then hash it out over the course of a half-a-dozen posts and a hundred or so comments? Or would you prefer it if I limited my controversial ideas to one or two posts? Or would you prefer that I just cut it out altogether?

And a question specifically for Adrian (if he is reading this): Seeing as I started this whole thing at your request, did I at least acquit myself of the charge of being a neo-liberal? [Note to those who don't know the backstory to this: Adrian blogged something along the lines that everyone who rejects Penal Substitution is a neo-liberal. Jeremy said he should talk to me. Adrian contacted me, and these posts were the result.]


I wasn't convinced but neither was I in denial. I want to read your thesis in like three years and if it proves to be the new open theism I'll angrily about it ;)

I like the controversial topic and I especially enjoyed how no one attacked each other with fire, brimstone or accusations of being unbelievers. It's the most disheartening aspect of the Christian blogosphere and message board system that it often degenerates to that--but this didn't. THere was respect and general humor on all sides. Much enjoyed.

I liked how it spanned across several posts because it broke up the reading. Sometimes posts with 32 replies are too much for me but if I see 15 replies over several posts I'm more likely to read it.

God bless you,


SO soon?
And we were just getting into it.
I think I do want to hear more from you and I hold judgement on wether I think you a neoliberal until then!

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